Home > Blogosphere > Scott Tribe Should Stay

Scott Tribe Should Stay

May 15, 2007

I know I should not write anything on the moderator controversy going on at Progressive Bloggers, but feels wrong for me to sit back when somebody is being unfairly treated.

Today, that person is Scott Tribe, and there are a few people who are calling on him to resign.

The fact is, Scott should not be going anywhere. Why? Because the guy is a good and effective moderator.

One can tell that he works his ass making sure that Progressive Bloggers is working day and night.

Personally, if I have had any problems with my feed (or something else), Scott has worked hard to solve it and he does it in a quick and effective manner.

Now, I don’t really know the full story regarding what happened in the moderator forum between Polly Jones and Scott Tribe, but it sounds like a few mistakes were made on Scott’s part that had the other moderators scratching their head.

We all make mistakes here. We are all human. Hell, I’ve made mistakes that blew up all the all to Macleans!

But the thing is, and let me be blunt here, is that the people who want Scott to resign are not doing it because they are concerned about his moderating ability, they are doing it because they don’t like his politics. Well, I’ve had a lot of fights with Scott over politics, but I think it is over the top to call the man anti-progressive and authoritarian. Over the top.

Now, I hear that there are some concerns about the transparency of the Progressive Bloggers, and I think that is fair, and we need to look at possible solutions. But attacking Progressive Bloggers, calling on Scott to resign is not going to let that discussion occur; it will only place minds into a siege mentality.

So, yeah, what I see happening right now to Progressive Bloggers and Scott right now is like what Jason Cherinak did to the Blogging Dippers and Robert McClelland.

It was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

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Categories: Blogosphere
  1. eabbink
    May 15, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    “Because the guy is a good and effective moderator.”
    – Based on what? We have no idea what’s going on behind closed doors. And they have no intend to change this either.

    “So, yeah, what I see happening right now to Progressive Bloggers and Scott right now is like what Jason Cherinak did to the Blogging Dippers and Robert McClelland.”

    Nice analogy but ‘t doesn’t fly. Jason is not a dipper, is he?
    And PB isn’t a Liberal aggregator, or is it?

    Scott won’t resign. Why not? Because he has an authority fetish that’s not progressive. It’s time to vote for a new PB moderator. Indeed, voted in by the members. How much I love democracy.

  2. May 15, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    Erik, if you even knew half of what you were talking about, you’d be dangerous. We are not some secret cult behind closed doors. Most of what we talk about is pretty mundane. As for other stuff, the fact is, we’ve voted in most of the applications with approvals, and those include all types of ideological blogs – be they Liberal, NDP, anarchist, or left-wing in general. I can count on my 1 hand how many we’ve rejected due to being deemed “not progrressive”. If you don’t like the situation, you can leave Erik. Nothing is keeping you at our site.

    NBC Dipper: thanks for your support.

  3. Lord Kitchener's Own
    May 15, 2007 at 5:45 pm

    Hear hear!

    I’m getting pretty sick of this silliness and I hope Scott is able to let it roll off his back.

  4. eabbink
    May 15, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    “If you don’t like the situation, you can leave Erik. Nothing is keeping you at our site.”

    That would make your day wouldn’t it? So much for the progressive quality of encouraging public discourse at PB.

    Nuff said.

  5. Vijay
    May 15, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    Once upon a time in a kingdom in India people were chasing a man who stole a bread because he was hungry. The people wanted to stone him. The king said the first person to throw a stone on him should be one who has never committed a mistake. No one threw a stone that day!

    While I am not privy to any information about the dispute, it is sorry to see people call for Scott’s resignation or what ever. Scott has contributed to the growth and stability of the organization and if there is a problem with the leadership style then it has to be addressed in a proper manner and not behave like politicians calling for resignation for every issue that comes up.

    You don’t have to stand up for scott’s mistakes(if thats the case) but pls do stand up for Scott as an individual who has helped PB. Respect.

  6. Northern BC Dipper
    May 15, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    eabbink,

    “Because the guy is a good and effective moderator.”
    – Based on what?

    Based on my experiences and observations over the last year or so.

    “So, yeah, what I see happening right now to Progressive Bloggers and Scott right now is like what Jason Cherinak did to the Blogging Dippers and Robert McClelland.”
    Nice analogy but ‘t doesn’t fly. Jason is not a dipper, is he?
    And PB isn’t a Liberal aggregator, or is it?

    Actually, the analogy goes like this:
    Jason attacked the Blogging Dippers and Robert McClelland because he thought by doing so, Dippers on the internet would be damaged and Liberals would gain.
    A few people attacking Scott because they think that by doing so, neoliberals on the internet would be damaged and democratic socialists would gain.
    Neither thing had anything to do with moderating ability.

    It’s time to vote for a new PB moderator. Indeed, voted in by the members. How much I love democracy.

    I’d like to see democracy, but I’d like to see it done right. PB is a community with many different views and interests, and I am a little concerned that some views and interest could be marginalized by the majority. I’d like to see a plan discussed in place first. Do we elect moderators at large? Do we save moderator spots for people coming from a certain party/ideology? That kind of thing.
    I don’t think we can have that discussion if we are screaming “resign!”, though.
    Lord Kitchener’s Own,

    I’m getting pretty sick of this silliness and I hope Scott is able to let it roll off his back.

    Me too. But I thought that somebody had to write at least one post for each side.
    eabbink,

    “If you don’t like the situation, you can leave Erik. Nothing is keeping you at our site.”
    That would make your day wouldn’t it? So much for the progressive quality of encouraging public discourse at PB.

    I don’t think it does any good for anybody to leave.

    Vijay,
    You said what I thought better than I did.

  7. Northern BC Dipper
    May 15, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    As for the moderator forum issue: I wonder if having the moderator forum posted a month or so after the posting is a compromise people would be willing to look into. Maybe a moderating activity report summary every once in a while?

    I’m a little concerned that if we have moderator forums open, that the moderators would start performing for the audience instead of making fair decisions. That being said, I think that those who are concerned about transparency do have a viewpoint worth exploring.

  8. May 15, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    Thanks Northern Dipper, the analogy does fly! I hadn’t thought of it in that way. And yes, you are right, you can call him good and effective, point taken.

    My experiences were different. He once deleted my post from PB (didn;t like the word “Jewish” in the title although it was more relevant then ever) and didn’t inform me on it, closed a post on his own blog so I could not add anymore to it, and he once came up with incorrect numbers to support an fallacious thesis.

    Here are the respective links, if you’re interested.
    http://abbink.blogspot.com/2007/03/liblogs-purge-of-week-jewish-blogger.html
    http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/03/20/membership-breakdown-at-prog-blog-unaffiliateds-the-largest-group/
    http://abbink.blogspot.com/2007/03/progblog-moderator-did-get-numbers.html

  9. May 15, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    If you’re comfortable with someone being directed to edit their comment questioning support for the WB, then I guess you’re a strange kinda NDPer. Justice at home! Colonize the rest of the world! Unionize at home…exploit them abroad! Go TNCs!!!

  10. Northern BC Dipper
    May 15, 2007 at 8:22 pm

    Polly Jones,
    I’m not comfortable with someone being directed to edit their comment, and from what I’ve seen from the other moderators, they are not either.

    But everybody makes mistakes from time to time. Maybe some kind of apology is in order from Scott, but hey, I’ve only heard one side of the story.

  11. May 15, 2007 at 8:29 pm

    Joanne.. as usual you’re being over-dramatic. My statement was for supporting a fellow moderator and one I consider a friend.. and the quote of me in your 1 piece shows it had NOTHING to do with supporting the World Bank’s general policies. You flew off the handle, and you’re doing so again tonight.

    As for the proposed edit.. I wanted to ensure moderator peace by not having an intra-moderator war art the site, which he had already had with Kuri and Dawg earlier. I wanted you to consider those consequences. If you had issues with the WB, you should have put it to your site or in private email. Instead.. you accused me of trying to censor you. What bullcrap.

    The mere fact you went to our site and modified the poll with a loaded question without asking anyone for permission – which you gave me flak over the prior week – in the full knowledge you were goingto resign more then justifies in my mind the decision to initially take your administrative privileges away when you first went ballistic. You proved your untrustworthiness with that act.

    NBC, I would advise you that for your Blogging Dippers group, keep Joanne as far away as possible from any administrative decision making. She is dogmatic and will whine if people wish to compromise on some position she holds to be a steadfast truth… she clearly isnt accepting of the fact that her views arent the only ones out there.

  12. May 15, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    By the way NBC, re: the apology.. I offered Joanne one.. as well as the other moderators for my part in this sorry affair at the public forum. I also sent Joanne one in email on Saturday. I also pledged to take steps at our mod forums to ensure we would avoid that in the future. The other moderators have accepted that.. but Joanne did not.. she was wanting her pound of flesh from me.. and nothing would stop her from it. She has dug up all past grievances she’s had with me and Prog Blog and turned it into a personal vendetta.

  13. May 15, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    By the way Erik.. regarding the purge of your questionable post. I did not remove it unilaterally. I certainly informed you of it, but I brought it to Wayne’s attention, and he agreed it was an offensive and questionable and should be removed.

  14. May 15, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Strange that the WB moderator disagrees with you. Also, if you do not think your statement trivializes criticisms of the WB, I can only assume you’re intellectually challenged.

    Are you blaming this on Kuri and Dawg now?

    Anyway, I’m done. I find you so annoying because you don’t get things. Ugh.

  15. May 15, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    “If you had issues with the WB, you should have put it to your site or in private email. Instead.. you accused me of trying to censor you. What bullcrap.”

    I did not bring up my views. You made a ‘public’ announcement which JJ already has said she did not appreciate as she does not need defending. I stated “I hope you are not talking about the WB.” Are you such a control freak to make me edit/remove that?!

    I’m pretty sure JJ and I could have hashed it out.

    Don’t accuse me of bringing up my views when it was you who brought up yours.

  16. May 15, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    Nothern Bc,

    If you are interested in the possibility of calling for some transparency, you should read this thread:

    http://scottneigh.blogspot.com/2007/05/progblogs-and-process.html#comments

  17. Northern BC Dipper
    May 15, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    Polly Jones,
    I’ve linked to that in my post, and I’m actually the first person to make a comment on it :).
    But I’m a little concerned that with all the “she said, he said” type of thing going on right now, that matters of process have been buried and gone out the window, so to speak.

  18. May 15, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Last thing: clearly Scott and I can’t stand each other at this point. Predictably, I am saying that I am in the right and he is saying that he is. Open moderator forums would allow members to decide how they feel about the mods. Issues such as codes of conducts should be open to the community to particpate in.
    Also, I am the second moderator to resign this year. The other was also from the NDP spectrum. These are my views. I often differed with the other mods. I really do think someone from the NDP spectrum should be found to replace me.

  19. May 15, 2007 at 10:00 pm

    I’m a little concerned that if we have moderator forums open, that the moderators would start performing for the audience instead of making fair decisions.

    I don’t perform for audiences. Sorry. And I’m a lousy dancer anyway. With me, WYSIWYG.

    Also, I am the second moderator to resign this year. The other was also from the NDP spectrum…I really do think someone from the NDP spectrum should be found to replace me.

    What’s the “NDP spectrum”? An NDP member or someone left of the Liberal party? I’d consider myself somewhere around that supposed “NDP spectrum” – if not even further left – yet I haven’t had problems with the other moderators. so I really don’t think that’s the issue here.

  20. E.abbink
    May 15, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    “I certainly informed you of it,”

    Scott, how low can you go? Do you really feel a need to lie about this when everybody with one click can find out you’re lying? You’re a lot more stupid then I thought. This is what you told me on my blog:

    Scott Tribe said…
    I see no point in the title of this Erik. SO what if he’s a Jewish blogger?
    This is incendiary.. if you disagree with him,.. fine.. but you’ve gone overboard on the title.

    Which can be found here.

    No mentioning about the removal on PB. Now you point me somewhere, or show me some email in which you tell me my post has been removed.

  21. May 15, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    I’ve tried to include the link to my post, but WordPress doesn’t seem to liike links. I’ll blog about this if needed on my own blog

  22. Northern BC Dipper
    May 15, 2007 at 10:14 pm

    E.abbink,

    The WordPress anti-spam software doesn’t like it at all when you put in too many links, it seems. But at the same time, it rarely makes mistakes. I de-spamed your comment it thought was spam, though.

    I used my moderating powers to create your link for the last post, as well.

  23. Erik Abbink
    May 15, 2007 at 10:28 pm

    Sorry about all the duplicates; I guess the site was just being slow somehow; sorry about that. Moderator, go ahead, remove the duplicates – LOL

    BTW, Scott, let’s not beat around the bush here; it was Jason Cherniak who informed you of the post. He complained, you deleted it without notifying me.

    Like Northern BC Dipper, the writer of this blog, I understand that where people work they make mistakes; a mere apology for deleting without notifying would have been fine with me. But none of this happened. On the contrary. You rather cover it up, or, in this case, flat-out lie about it. It’s far worse than the mistake itself.

    Same for the membership breakdown (see for link comment #8)r. Did you ever really apologize for the flawed math? Not really. You (and some of your following, like trying-not-to-be-biased Steve V) rather attack the messenger. This so-called “progressive” blogging makes me sick to my stomach.

  24. Erik Abbink
    May 15, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    Thanks NBC Dipper (do you have a first name?), I appreciate your extra work. I’ll try to use less links the next time.

  25. Northern BC Dipper
    May 15, 2007 at 10:49 pm

    Erik Abbink,

    If I do remember correctly, however, the post in question “Liblogs purge of the week: Jewish blogger Jason Cherniak purges pro-Palestinian Blogger over ads” was removed from Progressive Bloggers, but the same post with close to the same content with a different title, “Purging is HOT!“, was not.

    So, I’m not if Scott’s goal was to censor your opinion in that case. As for the title, well, “Jewish”, while it probably should not have been removed, I would guess was removed simply because of the overreactionary type of atmosphere at the time (I remember terms like “antisemitism” being thrown around so much it lost meaning).

    do you have a first name?

    NBCD is fine.

  26. Erik Abbink
    May 16, 2007 at 7:25 am

    “As for the title, well, “Jewish”, while it probably should not have been removed, I would guess was removed simply because of the overreactionary type of atmosphere at the time”.

    That’s part of the reason, NBCD, the other part is Jason Cherniak, who besides being Jewish (did I use that word again now?) is also a Liberal. But of course, no Liberal favouritism here.

    The “party breakdown”post illustrates Scott’s disrespect for (correct) facts and transparency. Firstly Scott uses incorrect numbers to back-up a flawed thesis (unproofing bias with numbers, how creative), then closes his post for more comments, and later on my blog he refuses to give the real numbers (cover up).

    Doesn’t anyone else find it hard to believe that Joanne’s postings were deleted because of Scott’s housecleaning purposes on ProgBlogs? In fact, sources tell me NO ONE buys Scott’s removal of the posts was without the alternate motive of removing Joanne’s comments. But no worries, cover-up is like purging (or torture); it gets easier all the time.

    I’m sure Scott will go at great length to tell you all I’ve laid out here is nonsense (mainly by attacking the messenger, not the message), but be aware; it’s hard to argue with someone who will use lies to back-up his position.

  27. Erik Abbink
    May 16, 2007 at 7:32 am

    NBCD, you must be able to see now why I have to disagree with you when it comes to Scott being a good moderator.

  28. May 16, 2007 at 9:09 am

    Catnip,

    You were on the Liblogs blogroll not the Dippers blog roll. Explain your understanding of small ‘l’ liberal and I will clarify what I mean by NDP spectrum.

  29. May 16, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    What it ultimately comes down to is that Scott and the like really don’t care much about the WB. It’s petty party politics they’re interested in, and only to spout their Liberal bias beyond Liblogs. These Libs are as progressive as the Cons are green; don’t fall for it. See my blog for a more detailed explanation: http://abbink.blogspot.com/2007/05/liberal-propaganda-at-progblog-not.html

  30. May 16, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    I hear what you’re saying Catnip. I don’t think its about place on the idelogical spectrum is what it’s about either. It’s about petty partisanship.

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